MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Lucent
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40
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7/28/2009
Location
Framingham, MA US
3/9/2020 3:01pm
David9180 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/03/06/9293/s1200_5A83DA50_F055_47DE_918B_AB65FEA22653.jpg[/img]

depeche4 wrote:
Looks so nice, what is it? A new following or what?
w3bbo wrote:
maybe the new wreckoing as there's no wreckoing on the evil website at the moment....? https://www.evil-bikes.com
Their site shows the Wreckoning for me!
Primoz
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SI
3/9/2020 3:30pm
I was thinking about a piston that would squeeze oil into a tube under deep compression events and squirt it through said tube up to the foam rings. But yeah, a casting incorporating that would be a PITA. Maybe the new proto Trickstuff/Intend fork could be made using that considering it looks glued together Smile
Primoz
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3/10/2020 9:46am
Have we successfully derailed another topic? :D
2
rugbyred
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CA
3/10/2020 10:05am
Primoz wrote:
Have we successfully derailed another topic? :D
What was the topic again?
2
LTrumpore
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156
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9/27/2009
Location
Taipei TW
3/10/2020 10:14am
Primoz wrote:
Have we successfully derailed another topic? :D
rugbyred wrote:
What was the topic again?
Jeff Brines’ airing of grievances?
13
Primoz
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SI
3/10/2020 1:37pm
Well, if it leads to solutions and better products is there a problem? Tongue
Big Bird
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Location
Oceano, CA US
3/10/2020 2:09pm
Perhaps a suspension tech thread? Hint, there's a little green button that says "Start new topic." Simple as...
3
rugbyred
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84
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4/29/2012
Location
CA
3/11/2020 5:32am
Zerode just launched their bikes with a belt drive. They are even retrofittable to their past bikes.
1
3/11/2020 5:36am
rugbyred wrote:
Zerode just launched their bikes with a belt drive. They are even retrofittable to their past bikes.
I cannot understand this. The Pinion already has some drag to the drivetrain, with the belt introducing even more drag. Clean drivetrain is good, though.
1
jeff.brines
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753
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Grand Junction, CO US
3/11/2020 7:48am
LTrumpore wrote:
Jeff Brines’ airing of grievances?
All my posts deleted. I'll bow out. Apologies.
bturman
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2102
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Durango, CO US
3/11/2020 8:10am Edited Date/Time 3/11/2020 8:12am
More angles on the new Evil:

View this post on Instagram

Detalles || @evilbicycles x @cervezalavirgen

A post shared by Cal (@caljelley) on Mar 10, 2020 at 12:02pm PDT



View this post on Instagram

3

A post shared by Evil Bikes (@evilbicycles) on Mar 10, 2020 at 11:58am PDT






2
Primoz
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3/11/2020 8:19am
LTrumpore wrote:
Jeff Brines’ airing of grievances?
All my posts deleted. I'll bow out. Apologies.
Noooooooo! Why??
1
groghunter
Posts
72
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Location
Tucson, AZ US
3/11/2020 10:56am
rugbyred wrote:
Zerode just launched their bikes with a belt drive. They are even retrofittable to their past bikes.
baronKanon wrote:
I cannot understand this. The Pinion already has some drag to the drivetrain, with the belt introducing even more drag. Clean drivetrain is good, though.
Last I looked at specs, belt drive is one of the weight saving measures required to get a gearbox to a comparable weight of a deraileur setup. If i was buying a zerode, I'd probably opt for this.
3/11/2020 12:25pm
baronKanon wrote:
I cannot understand this. The Pinion already has some drag to the drivetrain, with the belt introducing even more drag. Clean drivetrain is good, though.
What data are you basing this on? Friction facts tested belts vs chains and there was a small increase in drag at low wattage outputs, mostly due to tension but they diverged at higher watts and the belt had less drag.

Also the drag numbers comparing a pinion gearbox vs a derailleur assumes a straight chainline and a clean chain. Once you factor in cross chaining and poor lube/cleaning procedures, pinion bikes are probably no worse than the average derailleur bike
4
1
BHowell
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Reno, NV US
3/11/2020 5:04pm
If you'd like color photos and more angles of the new Evil, you can check out our feature from January HERE


Primoz
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SI
3/12/2020 2:04pm Edited Date/Time 3/12/2020 2:12pm
Oh boy... For a fork that notoriously contains very little oil, to risk dropping it out even more... I think it's much easier and safer to stick to Darren's method of turning the bike upside down. And with grooves cut into the bushings, the oil will seep down to the foam rings just as much as if you take the lowers off.

One way to do this is to hang your bike off the wall (I use steadyracks due to the unique lyout of the garage where i hang off 4 bikes in just over a meter of width) where it's waiting for the next ride with the fork positioned at just enough of an angle to lubricate the foam rings. But I think i'll be trying the 'replace the rings with grease' option at the next 50h service just to see what happens.

As for chainlube oil...Dunno. RS specifically states that if you use RS dynamic seal grease (PTFE infused), that you should add a few ml of lower leg oil to the airspring as opposed to straight butter with no oil. No such issues on rear shocks, but still, makes me thing there's something up with PTFE lubricants. And mixing and matching lubricating oils, again, in an application notorious for low oil quantity... I wouldn't recommend that if someone asked me.

BTW, who has to be bribed to get a silver Lyrik? Would do wonders on a raw Alu bike :D
EDIT: i see it's 'home made'. Maybe with the next bike :D
LTrumpore
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Taipei TW
3/12/2020 2:30pm Edited Date/Time 3/12/2020 2:49pm
Primoz wrote:
Oh boy... For a fork that notoriously contains very little oil, to risk dropping it out even more... I think it's much easier and safer to...
Oh boy... For a fork that notoriously contains very little oil, to risk dropping it out even more... I think it's much easier and safer to stick to Darren's method of turning the bike upside down. And with grooves cut into the bushings, the oil will seep down to the foam rings just as much as if you take the lowers off.

One way to do this is to hang your bike off the wall (I use steadyracks due to the unique lyout of the garage where i hang off 4 bikes in just over a meter of width) where it's waiting for the next ride with the fork positioned at just enough of an angle to lubricate the foam rings. But I think i'll be trying the 'replace the rings with grease' option at the next 50h service just to see what happens.

As for chainlube oil...Dunno. RS specifically states that if you use RS dynamic seal grease (PTFE infused), that you should add a few ml of lower leg oil to the airspring as opposed to straight butter with no oil. No such issues on rear shocks, but still, makes me thing there's something up with PTFE lubricants. And mixing and matching lubricating oils, again, in an application notorious for low oil quantity... I wouldn't recommend that if someone asked me.

BTW, who has to be bribed to get a silver Lyrik? Would do wonders on a raw Alu bike :D
EDIT: i see it's 'home made'. Maybe with the next bike :D
Not all of us can store our bike upside down (right side up has other benefits particularly for the brakes, but that's another story), and how much oil flows past the bushing to the top of the fork, and how long it takes, depends from fork to fork and the condition and volume of oil in it. If it works for you then no reason to stop.

The teflon chain oil is just to clean off and lightly lube the dust wipers and almost everyone has some on hand. No where is it suggested to use it inside the fork. The RSP lube is meant for suspension internals (it's in German, but figured the picture of the fork on the bottle was obvious enough), but also says 'or a few drops of fork oil.' both Fox and RS recommend a few ml of their own oil on top of the airspring at service, no reason you can't add few drops in between.

As for mixing and matching brands, I'm not sure I'd lose sleep over a couple drops on the positive side of the air piston. I'd go for a full rebuild any day, but if my choice was a sticky fork or doing something quick and easy in the parking lot I'd choose the latter. But if you're trying to make comparisons to an optimal, step-by-step and by the book fork service then I think you've maybe missed the point?




3
Primoz
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SI
3/13/2020 8:10am
LTrumpore wrote:
Not all of us can store our bike upside down (right side up has other benefits particularly for the brakes, but that's another story), and how...
Not all of us can store our bike upside down (right side up has other benefits particularly for the brakes, but that's another story), and how much oil flows past the bushing to the top of the fork, and how long it takes, depends from fork to fork and the condition and volume of oil in it. If it works for you then no reason to stop.

The teflon chain oil is just to clean off and lightly lube the dust wipers and almost everyone has some on hand. No where is it suggested to use it inside the fork. The RSP lube is meant for suspension internals (it's in German, but figured the picture of the fork on the bottle was obvious enough), but also says 'or a few drops of fork oil.' both Fox and RS recommend a few ml of their own oil on top of the airspring at service, no reason you can't add few drops in between.

As for mixing and matching brands, I'm not sure I'd lose sleep over a couple drops on the positive side of the air piston. I'd go for a full rebuild any day, but if my choice was a sticky fork or doing something quick and easy in the parking lot I'd choose the latter. But if you're trying to make comparisons to an optimal, step-by-step and by the book fork service then I think you've maybe missed the point?




I saw the fork on the other tube, yeah, I was aiming at the chain lube.

As for oil in the air spring, like I said, RS doesn't mention adding oil, except if you use the RS dynamic seal grease (PTFE). In that case you SHOULD add oil. But not if you use Sram Butter (at least it's not needed).

As for missing the point, I think the point was made in the YT comments. Doing this gets you like 80 % towards a full service. Why not just do that then?

And storing upside down, everytime we get to the top of the climb, my friend, because of what Darren said in his podcast, turns the bike upside down. When we start the descent, he picks it up and goes. And to be honest it's relatively hard for me to imagine that you can't store your bike upside down, but can store right side up? It's not like one way takes up way more space? Or am I missing something? I know I'm blessed with living in a house with a freshly furnished and geared 'shop' that would make many real life mechanics (who do it for a job) happy. Please describe why it's not an option, I would genuinely like to know that.
rugbyred
Posts
84
Joined
4/29/2012
Location
CA
3/13/2020 8:37am
Nino’s built in grip buttons are amazing. Wonder how often they would short out for the non pro athlete who won’t be working on them every week.
1
LTrumpore
Posts
156
Joined
9/27/2009
Location
Taipei TW
3/13/2020 8:57am Edited Date/Time 3/13/2020 11:32am
LTrumpore wrote:
Not all of us can store our bike upside down (right side up has other benefits particularly for the brakes, but that's another story), and how...
Not all of us can store our bike upside down (right side up has other benefits particularly for the brakes, but that's another story), and how much oil flows past the bushing to the top of the fork, and how long it takes, depends from fork to fork and the condition and volume of oil in it. If it works for you then no reason to stop.

The teflon chain oil is just to clean off and lightly lube the dust wipers and almost everyone has some on hand. No where is it suggested to use it inside the fork. The RSP lube is meant for suspension internals (it's in German, but figured the picture of the fork on the bottle was obvious enough), but also says 'or a few drops of fork oil.' both Fox and RS recommend a few ml of their own oil on top of the airspring at service, no reason you can't add few drops in between.

As for mixing and matching brands, I'm not sure I'd lose sleep over a couple drops on the positive side of the air piston. I'd go for a full rebuild any day, but if my choice was a sticky fork or doing something quick and easy in the parking lot I'd choose the latter. But if you're trying to make comparisons to an optimal, step-by-step and by the book fork service then I think you've maybe missed the point?




Primoz wrote:
I saw the fork on the other tube, yeah, I was aiming at the chain lube. As for oil in the air spring, like I said...
I saw the fork on the other tube, yeah, I was aiming at the chain lube.

As for oil in the air spring, like I said, RS doesn't mention adding oil, except if you use the RS dynamic seal grease (PTFE). In that case you SHOULD add oil. But not if you use Sram Butter (at least it's not needed).

As for missing the point, I think the point was made in the YT comments. Doing this gets you like 80 % towards a full service. Why not just do that then?

And storing upside down, everytime we get to the top of the climb, my friend, because of what Darren said in his podcast, turns the bike upside down. When we start the descent, he picks it up and goes. And to be honest it's relatively hard for me to imagine that you can't store your bike upside down, but can store right side up? It's not like one way takes up way more space? Or am I missing something? I know I'm blessed with living in a house with a freshly furnished and geared 'shop' that would make many real life mechanics (who do it for a job) happy. Please describe why it's not an option, I would genuinely like to know that.
Quick show of hands, who wants to go for a ride with the guys who has to turn his bike upside down on every climb?

80% of a full service in terms of what? Time, no. Materials, no. Set up/clean up, no. But like I said, you've clearly missed the point. It's probably for the best that you don't try anything in the video, that way you'll never have to worry about getting your PFTE's mixed up with your 30w's.

I'll keep living dangerously.


*edit: I guess I don't subscribe to the notion, particularly in forums/comment sections, that when something doesn't apply to your own experience or preferred methods the best response is to point out all the reasons you do something else (usually without actually trying first). You don't like it, cool, don't bother. Can't figure out why someone might, no worries, they don't need your permission. Cheers.

1
dolface
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890
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10/26/2015
Location
CA US
3/13/2020 9:00am
rugbyred wrote:
Nino’s built in grip buttons are amazing. Wonder how often they would short out for the non pro athlete who won’t be working on them every...
Nino’s built in grip buttons are amazing. Wonder how often they would short out for the non pro athlete who won’t be working on them every week.
It looks pretty weatherproof based on the setup Brad Copeland did for Kate: https://mbaction.com/best-bike-hacks-a-better-dropper-seatpost/
sspomer
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4235
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6/26/2009
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Boise, ID US
3/13/2020 11:05am
edited. fwiw, i can never keep most bike model names straight (or strait, like kyle...his name i gotz on lock, same with minnaar having 2 a's and 2 n's and eliot jackson only having 1 L and 1 T : )
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